A heated debate regarding the ownership and distribution of ported character models within the community. Users discuss whether the effort of weighing and kitbashing assets justifies exclusivity or if all fan-made ports should be freely shared.
[2023-08-30 14:31] <lwkill> he never gives anyone permission [2023-08-30 14:32] <lwkill> not sure if you saw the drama from some days ago , me and some others got banned from jkempire because we was using some of his ports [2023-08-30 14:34] <lwkill> even some people that didnt knew we used them [2023-08-30 14:37] <gustavopredador> Banned? [2023-08-30 14:38] <gustavopredador> Hmmm strange [2023-08-30 14:38] <mrwonko> but why? Does he feel like he has a copyright on those copyright-infringing ports? LUL [2023-08-30 14:43] <gustavopredador> @Lwkill you not banned just kicked and could easily re join to group [2023-08-30 14:44] <gustavopredador> No need this drama [2023-08-30 14:46] <lwkill> yes 😄 its just dumb (edited) [2023-08-30 14:46] <lwkill> really? and they will not kick me again then? [2023-08-30 14:47] <petrovaa.> Lwkill [2023-08-30 14:47] <petrovaa.> You can re join as easy as butter [2023-08-30 14:47] <makha> I dont think this conversation is something that needs to be had here. Kind of like "airing dirty laundry" [2023-08-30 14:47] <makha> This kind of conversation should be had in private with the involved parties. Otherwise things get misunderstood or misconstrued. (edited) [2023-08-30 14:48] <lwkill> maybe youre right [2023-08-30 14:49] <gustavopredador> [2023-08-30 14:54] <omega8651> It has nothing to do with anything copyright, it's the time and work he put into those ported models/kitbashes, I'm not sure about you but I wouldn't be happy if someone grabbed one of my big projects and threw it around the internet like it's nothing and not even be credited for all the time and work that was put into it [2023-08-30 14:54] <lwkill> he was credited at the end credits that plays after every mission [2023-08-30 14:56] <mrwonko> remixing is complicated... as a wannabe communist I'm in favor of freely sharing mods, but I get that a limited exclusivity period might be reasonable [2023-08-30 14:57] <mrwonko> the more things incorporate a mod, the less likely it is to be lost [2023-08-30 14:57] <mrwonko> but it would be nice if we had a standardized way of crediting creators so players can see who made their favorite things [2023-08-30 15:05] <lwkill> well i dont know why we removed the actual credits txt [2023-08-30 15:07] <mrwonko> Something akin to a CODEOWNERS file would be neat, a machine readable format that describes each file (or folder) in the pk3 [2023-08-30 18:43] <i_am_noodle> lmao I had no idea and what an absurd thing [2023-08-30 18:46] <i_am_noodle> I'm all for it, the jannies in JKEmpire keep on deleting my comments and its turning every day more into a self-fellating hugbox [2023-08-30 18:48] <i_am_noodle> How can you be a communist if you think that people have exclusive rights to property (that wasn't made by them) and which shouldn't be owned by a private person? [2023-08-30 18:49] <mrwonko> Ports are a different/tricky matter, but for mods you made from scratch I can accept it… until the revolution comes [2023-08-30 18:51] <i_am_noodle> I don't know, if they feel like they can claim ownership on stuff they didn't make, then you could argue that you own 99% of all blender ports since they were made with your plug-in. I feel like intellectual property is bullshit, which is why in my mind everything I do is owned by the people that actively use it. [2023-08-30 18:54] <makha> Please keep gossip about other discord servers out of here. If you have an issue with someone, message them directly. [2023-08-30 18:55] <i_am_noodle> I wish I could have an issue with someone but they delete stuff anonymously like the bitter eunuchs they are [2023-08-31 00:58] <minilogoguy18> Its so hard to take modern "communists" seriously lol. [2023-08-31 01:01] <minilogoguy18> @TheOmega91 its also stupid to get upset that someone is distributing a ported model. Its not your artwork and porting takes ZERO skill [2023-08-31 01:02] <minilogoguy18> The artistic portion of creating a 3d model from scratch is leaps and bounds more difficult than weighing it to a skeleton and clicking the export button [2023-08-31 01:09] <gustavopredador> @TheOmega91 Making a model port would be considered porting the character as seen in the original game, if we change the skeleton and edit the mesh to fit the proportion isn't it reimagining? [2023-08-31 01:11] <gustavopredador> I still think customization as fan content, or creating from scratch should be respected. example a person download and say that made the mod. I know asshole who did this [2023-08-31 01:13] <gustavopredador> Everything is a creative idea on the same Disney IP. Star Wars and almost everything is Disney. everything from fox became part of disney [2023-08-31 01:17] <gustavopredador> the only company that is aggressive with copyright is nintendo. this modding with game assets in other games is already something known by developers. I have contact with these Santa Monica devs. what I was told (you want to use, give the credits but don't sell) (edited) [2023-08-31 01:19] <gustavopredador> even David Jaffe said this to my friend on twitter about god of war (edited) [2023-08-31 01:19] <omega8651> Not sure why you would say porting takes zero skill, if that were the case, everyone would be able to port whatever they wanted to see in JKA. What I'm trying to get across to some people who seem to not be able to understand this, everything takes time and work to get creative content into JKA that people like to see. You would think it would be common sense to credit someone who took time to make something happen to bring into JKA meaning ported/kitbashed or both. This is one of the reasons why JKA is still alive to this day because of people with creative minds to create content with what's possible/available to bring something to life in JKA. Some of these projects take days/weeks/months depending on how accurate you want something to be that you're trying to make. Not to mention porting also comes with weighing the model which we all know is a pain in the ass so everything looks right when the model moves. (edited) [2023-08-31 01:20] <gustavopredador> anyway this for disclosure to developers, for old games like abandon ware [2023-08-31 01:22] <gustavopredador> and remembered it could not have a breach of copyright, for being the same IP and giving the Credits [2023-08-31 01:22] <gustavopredador> has a 10 year period to become abandonware [2023-08-31 01:38] <gustavopredador> ty [2023-08-31 02:26] <minilogoguy18> Weighing isn't hard though. [2023-08-31 06:15] <mrwonko> People still manage to do it badly
He never gives anyone permission. Not sure if you saw the drama from some days ago, but me and some others got banned from jkempire because we were using some of his ports. Even some people that didn't know we used them got caught up in it. It's just dumb. He was credited at the end credits that play after every mission, but I don't know why we removed the actual credits.txt.
Banned? Hmmm strange. lwkill, you weren't banned, just kicked, and you could easily rejoin the group. No need for this drama. You can rejoin as easy as butter.
But why? Does he feel like he has a copyright on those copyright-infringing ports? LUL. Remixing is complicated... as a wannabe communist I'm in favor of freely sharing mods, but I get that a limited exclusivity period might be reasonable. The more things incorporate a mod, the less likely it is to be lost.
It would be nice if we had a standardized way of crediting creators so players can see who made their favorite things. Something akin to a CODEOWNERS file would be neat—a machine-readable format that describes each file (or folder) in the pk3.
I don't think this conversation is something that needs to be had here. Kind of like "airing dirty laundry." This kind of conversation should be had in private with the involved parties. Otherwise things get misunderstood or misconstrued.
It has nothing to do with anything copyright; it's the time and work he put into those ported models/kitbashes. I'm not sure about you, but I wouldn't be happy if someone grabbed one of my big projects and threw it around the internet like it's nothing and wasn't even credited for all the time and work that was put into it.
Everything takes time and work to get creative content into JKA. You would think it would be common sense to credit someone who took time to make something happen, whether ported, kitbashed, or both. This is one of the reasons why JKA is still alive to this day. Some of these projects take days, weeks, or months depending on how accurate you want it to be. Not to mention porting also comes with weighing the model, which we all know is a pain in the ass so everything looks right when the model moves.
I had no idea, what an absurd thing. I'm all for sharing; the jannies in JKEmpire keep on deleting my comments and it's turning more into a self-fellating hugbox every day. How can you be a communist if you think that people have exclusive rights to property (that wasn't made by them) and which shouldn't be owned by a private person?
If they feel like they can claim ownership on stuff they didn't make, then you could argue mrwonko owns 99% of all Blender ports since they were made with his plugin. I feel like intellectual property is bullshit, which is why in my mind everything I do is owned by the people that actively use it. I wish I could take my issues to them directly, but they delete stuff anonymously like bitter eunuchs.
It's so hard to take modern "communists" seriously lol. Also, it's stupid to get upset that someone is distributing a ported model. It's not your artwork and porting takes ZERO skill. The artistic portion of creating a 3D model from scratch is leaps and bounds more difficult than weighing it to a skeleton and clicking the export button. Weighing isn't hard.
Making a model port would be considered porting the character as seen in the original game, but if we change the skeleton and edit the mesh to fit the proportions, isn't it reimagining? I still think customization as fan content or creating from scratch should be respected. I know assholes who download a mod and claim they made it.
Everything is a creative idea on the same Disney IP. The only company that is aggressive with copyright is Nintendo. This modding with game assets in other games is already something known by developers. I have contact with Santa Monica devs and what I was told was: 'you want to use, give the credits but don't sell.' Even David Jaffe said this to my friend on Twitter about God of War. For old games like abandonware, there shouldn't be a breach of copyright for being the same IP and giving credits.
Ports are a different/tricky matter, but for mods you made from scratch I can accept exclusivity… until the revolution comes. As for weighing, people still manage to do it badly.