A discussion on the difficulties of working with the Jedi Academy skeleton hierarchy in Blender. Experienced modders suggest using a 'shadow rig' to bypass hierarchy issues for better IK control when creating custom animations and movesets.
[2024-05-15 23:47] <darkzeroprojects> So using some lil basemesh and messin with that one amrature from one jka blender file [2024-05-15 23:47] <darkzeroprojects> [attachment: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1103343134160728144/1240450469571203142/image.png?ex=6a026a86&is=6a011906&hm=7b5a3946de110b8e901fb602896842b3190b3e2db18975c0dce17fc4ad603c22&] [2024-05-15 23:47] <darkzeroprojects> from this one / [attachment: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1103343134160728144/1240450559136497784/image.png?ex=6a026a9b&is=6a01191b&hm=95b59bdc7996fcc6b826fe1f8f3acaac065b9b357fea5ffc6b59919e34fc8b33&] [2024-05-15 23:47] <darkzeroprojects> It didn't work out [2024-05-16 00:31] <minilogoguy18> Rather than trying to build a rig around the horrible JA skeleton just make a shadow rig. [2024-05-16 00:32] <minilogoguy18> It's how it's been done in 3DS Max and Softimage [2024-05-16 00:32] <minilogoguy18> Really teh only way that works due to the parenting structure of the JA skeleton [2024-05-16 00:32] <minilogoguy18> You'll never get good IK controls without breaking up the hierarchy [2024-05-16 00:33] <.mjt> @minilogoguy18 is that how it's called? [2024-05-16 00:33] <.mjt> shadow rigging? [2024-05-16 00:33] <.mjt> what's the term to search for? 😛 [2024-05-16 00:33] <minilogoguy18> Shadow rig [2024-05-16 00:34] <minilogoguy18> https://blenderartists.org/t/shadow-rigging/629978 [2024-05-16 00:34] <minilogoguy18> Essentially build a skeleton with similar dimensions but give yourself the freedom to arrange the hierarhcy that works best to solve the IK [2024-05-16 00:35] <minilogoguy18> Then constrain the JA skeleton so that it "shadows" the movement of the biped [2024-05-16 00:35] <minilogoguy18> It's funny how that forum posts links to old Softimage training material LOL [2024-05-16 00:35] <.mjt> I forgot you could constraint to other armatures as well lol [2024-05-16 00:35] <.mjt> omg [2024-05-16 00:35] <.mjt> Yeah that name immediately jumped to my eyes [2024-05-16 00:36] <minilogoguy18> For that I'll say to you an old American deep southern phrase. [2024-05-16 00:36] <minilogoguy18> If it were a snake it would have bit ya [2024-05-16 00:36] <.mjt> Yeah... 🤦♂️ [2024-05-16 00:36] <.mjt> not that I ever would try to to charakter stuff [2024-05-16 00:37] <.mjt> but I eventually might in a few years [2024-05-16 00:37] <minilogoguy18> What will also help is if blender is able to have some constraint compensation as in local transforms do not need to match for it to follow properly [2024-05-16 00:37] <.mjt> to get EF2 skb/ska modeling working [2024-05-16 00:37] <minilogoguy18> Will also let you offset some controllers so that they're easy to select [2024-05-16 00:38] <minilogoguy18> Things like chain up vectors you don't really want on top of the joint it's controlling, better to have cnscomp to let it float off behind the biped (edited) [2024-05-16 06:19] <mrwonko> The importer has an option to slightly clean up the hierarchy on import. The export then uses a reference gla to get the original hierarchy back. [2024-05-16 09:52] <twilekroleplayer> I just modified the file of the freddie mercury model I found on mrwonkos site, mainly just gave it a botfile and script lol. [2024-05-17 17:54] <darkzeroprojects> I don't follow... [2024-05-17 17:54] <darkzeroprojects> Oh [2024-05-17 17:56] <darkzeroprojects> Well I hope I can make one that I can animate myself . / Since I intend to also attempt to make custom animations [2024-05-17 17:57] <mrwonko> it should be fairly easy once you've learned what you need to [2024-05-17 22:01] <darkzeroprojects> Hope so. / I want to try a custom character with their own moveset. [2024-05-18 01:41] <darthvaleria> [2024-05-18 16:48] <darkzeroprojects> The reason for this mainly kinda besides learning from modding and the tools and people in it... / It's to experiment my idea for a game project by modding in specific games I had as inspiration. [2024-05-18 17:16] <i_am_noodle> Its doable, the jabba model has its own move set [2024-05-18 17:16] <i_am_noodle> https://jkhub.org/files/file/3473-jabba-the-hutt/ [2024-05-26 18:15] <darkzeroprojects> Im suprised it's not a thing supported in Blender more easily.
So I've been using a little base mesh and messing with an armature from a JKA Blender file, but it didn't really work out.
I was trying to use this one: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1103343134160728144/1240450559136497784/image.png?ex=6a026a9b&is=6a01191b&hm=95b59bdc7996fcc6b826fe1f8f3acaac065b9b357fea5ffc6b59919e34fc8b33&
Rather than trying to build a rig around the horrible JKA skeleton, just make a shadow rig. It's how it's been done in 3DS Max and Softimage; it's really the only way that works due to the parenting structure of the JKA skeleton. You'll never get good IK controls without breaking up the hierarchy.
Essentially, build a skeleton with similar dimensions but give yourself the freedom to arrange the hierarchy that works best to solve the IK. Then constrain the JKA skeleton so that it "shadows" the movement of the biped.
Check this out for the concept: https://blenderartists.org/t/shadow-rigging/629978
What will also help is if Blender is able to have some constraint compensation, where local transforms do not need to match for it to follow properly. It will also let you offset some controllers so they're easy to select. Things like chain up vectors you don't really want on top of the joint it's controlling; better to let it float off behind the biped.
Shadow rigging? I forgot you could constrain to other armatures as well. That name immediately jumped out at me. I don't usually do character stuff, but I might in a few years to get EF2 skb/ska modeling working.
The importer has an option to slightly clean up the hierarchy on import. The export then uses a reference GLA to get the original hierarchy back.
I just modified the file of the Freddie Mercury model I found on mrwonko's site, mainly just gave it a botfile and script.
I hope I can make one that I can animate myself, since I intend to attempt custom animations. I want to try a custom character with their own moveset.
The reason for this, besides learning from the tools and the community, is to experiment with ideas for a game project by modding games that served as inspiration. I'm surprised this isn't supported in Blender more easily.
It's doable. The Jabba model has its own moveset: https://jkhub.org/files/file/3473-jabba-the-hutt/
