maui.94
Anyone here who knows how to properly do character weighting? I am trying to learn to do weighting from scratch but I don't completely understand how it works. I know the basics, but I seem to fail in shoulders and arms mostly.
Character Weighting and JKA Skeleton Quirks
A discussion on the technical requirements for character weighting in Jedi Academy, including vertex bone limits, the unique structure of the JKA skeleton, and how to manage bone hierarchies in Blender.
Comms log
[2024-09-02 11:49] <maui.94> Anyone here who knows how to properly do character weighting? (edited) [2024-09-02 12:08] <.mjt> As an art? [2024-09-02 12:08] <maui.94> Well, I am trying to learn to do weighting from scratch but I dont completely understand how it works [2024-09-02 12:08] <.mjt> What do you mean by how it works [2024-09-02 12:09] <.mjt> it assigns a float between 0 and 1 to a vertex group and that name must match the bone to be weighed to [2024-09-02 12:09] <.mjt> maximum of 4 bones referenced per vertex [2024-09-02 12:09] <maui.94> Well, I know the basics of how weighting works, but I seem to fail in shoulders and arms mostly [2024-09-02 12:09] <.mjt> if you assign more, there's a hierarchy in the exporter that trims them down to the most influential ones [2024-09-02 12:09] <.mjt> Depends on the model topology [2024-09-02 12:10] <.mjt> no one would make meshes like they were made by raven nowadays [2024-09-02 12:10] <.mjt> much nicer topology to support bending wihtout distortion and overlap [2024-09-02 12:10] <.mjt> so it's not just about weighing stuff [2024-09-02 12:10] <.mjt> especially with lowpoly arbritarily decimated stuff it becomes a chore [2024-09-02 12:10] <.mjt> you would rather attempt to get a good bone envelope setup for the default skeleton maybe and see if the autoweighing can be made to work [2024-09-02 12:11] <.mjt> but other than that - there are some good tutorials on blender weighing for charakters online [2024-09-02 12:11] <.mjt> the blender discord has lots of them in the history [2024-09-02 12:11] <.mjt> you can go to the respective channel [2024-09-02 12:11] <.mjt> use the search [2024-09-02 12:11] <.mjt> and get some really nice results and discussions around it [2024-09-02 12:11] <maui.94> I am not in that channel [2024-09-02 12:11] <.mjt> which will be much faster than going to hope one of the modelers here will train you xD [2024-09-02 12:11] <.mjt> I can send you the link in DM if you like [2024-09-02 12:12] <maui.94> And I went through youtube already, all of them are like: here is a video on how to "not" do weight painting and use automatic weighting [2024-09-02 12:12] <maui.94> And then others talk about arms and hands or a head [2024-09-02 12:12] <maui.94> But I need the real deal [2024-09-02 12:13] <maui.94> Also jka's skeleton looks weird. The bones being separated and all [2024-09-02 12:13] <maui.94> sure [2024-09-02 12:13] <.mjt> Because it's not the driving rig [2024-09-02 12:13] <.mjt> no bone constraints are defined by the modeler [2024-09-02 12:13] <.mjt> there are only some hardcoded into broadsword [2024-09-02 12:13] <.mjt> so it doesn't matter what bone size [2024-09-02 12:13] <.mjt> only location and rotation [2024-09-02 12:14] <.mjt> and ofc hierarchy for parenting and inheriting location prior to delta transforms from there I think [2024-09-02 12:14] <.mjt> you could reconnect all bones in the JKA skeleton if not mistaken [2024-09-02 12:14] <maui.94> You're speaking french now. I understand some but not all [2024-09-02 12:14] <.mjt> and scale them so they connect [2024-09-02 12:15] <maui.94> It has to be MP / SP compatible, if I make changes to the skeleton.. that might mess it up I think [2024-09-02 12:15] <.mjt> aaa oui monsieur - je pense qu'à travers l'exemple des modélisateurs de JKA - nous pouvons désespérer [2024-09-02 12:16] <maui.94> Oh lord [2024-09-02 12:16] <.mjt> no,. just for convenience during setup. - You should import .gla twice (edited) [2024-09-02 12:16] <maui.94> Now you're speaking chinese [2024-09-02 12:16] <.mjt> once with JKA correction and with out [2024-09-02 12:16] <.mjt> and you'll see leg bones have different scale and lenght [2024-09-02 12:16] <.mjt> yet exported glas from both imports [2024-09-02 12:16] <.mjt> do the same in engine [2024-09-02 12:16] <.mjt> so you can safely do that I think [2024-09-02 12:17] <maui.94> So, back to English. What am I to do now? [2024-09-02 12:17] <.mjt> désespérer [2024-09-02 12:17] <maui.94> I am awaiting that link [2024-09-02 12:17] <.mjt> https://discord.gg/v7WrWWd7 [2024-09-02 12:18] <maui.94> Thank you [2024-09-02 12:18] <.mjt> I hope they have sth in stock [2024-09-02 12:19] <.mjt> you can also just lay out your workflow there and document what you do. have some patience because the pros and helpful ones are not around all week [2024-09-02 12:20] <.mjt> But if you chose to do so, document fully - people there get mad quickly if they have to dig out information and pull it out of your nose 😄 (edited) [2024-09-02 12:20] <.mjt> rightfully so since everyones time is precious xD [2024-09-02 12:20] <.mjt> Not being mean towards you, but once you start scrolling through the blender discord, you'll notice how many XY problem people run around there or folks who basicallly want to be spoon fed the solution [2024-09-02 12:34] <maui.94> The thing is, I am doing this for years now. But now it's time to become more serious about it [2024-09-02 19:38] <maui.94> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTQ9gyeaeWI [2024-09-04 11:25] <maui.94> ? [2024-09-04 17:36] <maui.94> That was half french you spoke there xD
Transmission Thread
.mjt
Weighting assigns a float between 0 and 1 to a vertex group, and that name must match the bone to be weighed to. There is a maximum of 4 bones referenced per vertex; if you assign more, there's a hierarchy in the exporter that trims them down to the most influential ones.
It also depends heavily on the model topology. No one would make meshes like they were made by Raven nowadays. Modern topology supports bending without distortion and overlap much better. Especially with low-poly, arbitrarily decimated stuff, it becomes a chore. You might want to attempt a good bone envelope setup for the default skeleton and see if autoweighing can be made to work.
There are some good tutorials on Blender weighting for characters online. The Blender Discord has lots of them in the history if you use the search. It'll be much faster than hoping one of the modelers here will train you.
maui.94
I've been through YouTube already, but most videos are just 'how to NOT do weight painting' and then they just use automatic weighting. Others only talk about hands or heads, but I need the real deal.
Also, the JKA skeleton looks weird. The bones are all separated and disconnected.
.mjt
It looks that way because it's not the driving rig. No bone constraints are defined by the modeler; there are only some hardcoded into Broadsword. It doesn't matter what the bone size is, only the location and rotation.
You could reconnect all bones in the JKA skeleton and scale them so they connect for convenience during setup. If you import a .gla twice—once with JKA correction and once without—you'll see the leg bones have different scales and lengths, yet exported GLAs from both imports do the same thing in-engine. You can safely change the visual connection for your workflow.
maui.94
You're speaking French now—I understand some of that but not all. If I make changes to the skeleton, it has to stay MP/SP compatible. I'm worried that might mess it up.
.mjt
It won't mess it up; it's just for convenience during setup. Here is the link to the Blender Discord: https://discord.gg/v7WrWWd7
You can lay out your workflow there and document what you do. Have some patience because the pros aren't always around. If you do post there, document fully—people get mad quickly if they have to pull information out of your nose. Once you start scrolling through there, you'll notice how many 'XY problem' people run around or folks who basically want to be spoon-fed the solution.
maui.94
The thing is, I have been doing this for years now, but it's time to become more serious about it. I found this resource as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTQ9gyeaeWI