A discussion on efficient rigging workflows for Jedi Academy models in Blender and 3ds Max. Community members compare auto-rigging tools like Auto-Rig Pro and Mixamo against manual weight painting and a high-resolution weight transfer method.
[2023-08-15 14:52] <nalikos> @modelers Do you guys have something for Blender for some basic auto-rigging to Jedi Academy skeleton, or do you do it all by hand? I know such tools are usually imperfect as hell, but I would still gladly take a look at them [2023-08-15 14:59] <mrwonko> applying the skeleton fixes on import and then manually configuring some bone envelopes is as far as I ever got in that direction [2023-08-15 15:00] <gustavopredador> you can use mixamo for autorig but you have to make fixes to enter the JK3 skeleton [2023-08-15 15:02] <archangel35757> https://blendermarket.com/products/auto-rig-pro [2023-08-15 15:03] <gustavopredador> I prefer to make my own rig because of hand size differences [2023-08-15 15:03] <gustavopredador> This is free? [2023-08-15 15:03] <gustavopredador> Mixamo is free [2023-08-15 15:03] <ashuradx> I work with 3ds max, but the Workflow should be applicable for blender as well: / / I made a custom quad based mesh with a decently high resolution. I have spent a lot of time riggong said mesh to the jka skeleton and can now use it to transfer weights to new models. The high resolution/density allows for smooth weight transfer in most cases. / / Additionally I have some simple deformers that reshape this mesh and can help in adapting the overall shape to different characters. [2023-08-15 15:05] <gustavopredador> Possible transfer rig? [2023-08-15 15:06] <gustavopredador> Example Vader to Emperor [2023-08-15 15:07] <ashuradx> This is said mesh before I added a head and subdivided it to get the high resolution mesh I use nowadays. / / The videos show the first defomer I setup - a basic "male-to-female" morph that adjusts the overall proportions / [attachment: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1103343134160728144/1141025270606856304/image-2.png?ex=6a029957&is=6a0147d7&hm=a095fe070055796a0fd99f0d8e3c8ca45609ebe07a6b940eb3fe4576d015e36c&] [2023-08-15 15:07] <nalikos> You tested it with JK3? I know of "Rigify" for Blender that's free but it uses only their own basic skeletons (at least I think so) [2023-08-15 15:07] <nalikos> Oh, noted, thanks :D [2023-08-15 15:09] <gustavopredador> My mods example / [attachment: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1103343134160728144/1141025827287470181/8.png.fdd92f6b4233b0b90325df98d243e462.png?ex=6a0299dc&is=6a01485c&hm=da14a374381bfd69e5c105e89f25be3eb06af3950e3d307469f0e0bf1d4552f3&] [2023-08-15 15:32] <minilogoguy18> I do something similar as ashura. Weigh an unsegmented higher res mesh and just transfer. Some touching up after but pretty simple. [2023-08-15 15:33] <nalikos> Anybody has one like that for Blender maybe? [2023-08-15 15:38] <ashuradx> Mostly around hands/fingers and any loose clothing I find [2023-08-15 15:38] <ashuradx> Not that I'm aware of [2023-08-15 15:53] <i_am_noodle> Most of the people that do stuff with blender never respect JKA's skeleton proportions, so the rigs end up super messy, specially in the fingers and the face [2023-08-15 15:54] <i_am_noodle> I try to do manual rigging as much as possible because that way I can give a sense of shape to stuff like armor (I hate when breasplates bend like fleshwith the character's movements) [2023-08-15 16:06] <ashuradx> Very good point, but the proportions should in check before you start attaching the model to the skeleton 😄 / / And with the method I outlined you get a set of decent base weights essentially for free. You'll always have to go in for polish afterwards, fix some clipping here or there, maybe make some verts move less with certain bones, etc 😉 [2023-08-15 16:33] <darthvaleria> auto rigging sometimes work but oftenly it doesnt work / / So I do it manually / But I use edit-mode after selecting skeleton pose mode and model weight paint mode / / edit mode and then applying selected vertices to a selected vertex makes it easy and faster [2023-08-15 16:38] <i_am_noodle> For blender I did something similar, I took Kyle's body and deleted anythign that wasn't necessary (shoulderpads, belt, etc). I try to use that as a base to copy the rig into a new model, but I always make sure the proportions match and most of the time I use the game's default hands because it saves time [2023-08-15 16:38] <i_am_noodle> Nowadays I manually do the facial rig and polish some of the joins if they look too messy [2023-08-15 16:55] <minilogoguy18> Weight painting is my go to tool and all softwares have it [2023-08-15 16:55] <minilogoguy18> Set keyframes on the base pose, paint, move some of the joints to check your work, adjust and repeat. [2023-08-15 16:55] <minilogoguy18> They keyframes will allow you to snap back to the base pose for export [2023-08-15 16:56] <minilogoguy18> Some softwares also have a way to reset to a basepose that is stored when the envelope is first applied [2023-08-15 16:56] <minilogoguy18> So you don't even have to set keyframes [2023-08-15 16:57] <i_am_noodle> Yeah, blender has the same tool [2023-08-15 16:58] <archangel35757> No, it costs $40. Get off your wallet and pay the man for creating an awesome tool for you to use. [2023-08-15 17:00] <gustavopredador> I know but it's complicated in my country, tax and value is doubled in Brazilian reais [2023-08-15 17:01] <gustavopredador> 199.62 Brazilian Real [2023-08-15 17:05] <archangel35757> Then contact him directly and send him $40 thru PayPal , Zelle, or whatever and ask him to email you the product [2023-08-15 17:13] <gustavopredador> ok ty [2023-08-15 18:04] <minilogoguy18> Its really easy to have perfectly done weights by hand lol [2023-08-15 18:05] <minilogoguy18> In the world of instant gratification I guess not though (edited) [2023-08-15 18:30] <ashuradx> While I agree that it is not difficult to weight models by hand - I'd still rather spend more time on polish and less on laying the basic groundwork 😄 [2023-08-15 19:08] <minilogoguy18> For sure streamline it but pay for a tool? Na [2023-08-15 19:13] <ashuradx> all a question of how you value your time 😄 [2023-08-15 19:41] <.mjt> GIMME NOW [2023-08-15 19:42] <.mjt> I consider my ZenUV and UVPackmaster good investments - for what I wanted to do, the saved me so much more time than I spend working for the money they cost. [2023-08-15 21:24] <minilogoguy18> OK, maybe UV mapping I might open my wallet for cause I think everyone can agree that UV mapping sucks @mjt (edited) [2023-08-15 23:22] <gustavopredador> new banner with my mods / [attachment: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1103343134160728144/1141149936155627640/image.png?ex=6a0264b2&is=6a011332&hm=87e94233ce7e7fe4122ab07273c59d6b5d8388b33c33ea195e988ec7c1cab2d8&]
Do you guys have something for Blender for some basic auto-rigging to the Jedi Academy skeleton, or do you do it all by hand? I know such tools are usually imperfect as hell, but I would still gladly take a look at them. I know of 'Rigify' for Blender that's free, but I think it only uses their own basic skeletons.
Applying the skeleton fixes on import and then manually configuring some bone envelopes is as far as I ever got in that direction.
You can use Mixamo for autorig, but you have to make fixes to fit the JK3 skeleton. I prefer to make my own rig because of hand size differences, though. Mixamo is free at least.
Check out Auto-Rig Pro: https://blendermarket.com/products/auto-rig-pro. It costs $40. You should pay the man for creating an awesome tool for you to use.
I work with 3ds Max, but the workflow should be applicable for Blender as well. I made a custom quad-based mesh with a decently high resolution and spent a lot of time rigging it to the JKA skeleton. Now I use it to transfer weights to new models. The high resolution allows for smooth weight transfer in most cases.
Additionally, I have some simple deformers that reshape this mesh to help adapt the overall shape to different characters. This is the mesh before I added a head and subdivided it. The video shows a basic 'male-to-female' morph that adjusts proportions.
Most people that do stuff with Blender never respect JKA's skeleton proportions, so the rigs end up super messy, especially in the fingers and the face. I try to do manual rigging as much as possible because I can give a sense of shape to armor—I hate when breastplates bend like flesh with the character's movements.
For Blender, I took Kyle's body and deleted anything unnecessary (shoulderpads, belt, etc). I use that as a base to copy the rig into a new model, but I always make sure the proportions match. Most of the time I use the game's default hands because it saves time. Nowadays I manually do the facial rig and polish the joints if they look messy.
I do something similar to Ashura. Weigh an unsegmented higher res mesh and just transfer. Some touching up after, but it's pretty simple. Weight painting is my go-to tool and all software has it.
Set keyframes on the base pose, paint, move some of the joints to check your work, adjust and repeat. The keyframes allow you to snap back to the base pose for export. Some software also has a way to reset to a basepose stored when the envelope is first applied, so you don't even have to set keyframes.
Auto rigging sometimes works but often it doesn't, so I do it manually. I use edit mode after selecting skeleton pose mode and model weight paint mode; applying selected vertices to a selected vertex makes it easy and faster.
Regarding paid tools, it's complicated in my country. Taxes and the exchange rate double the value in Brazilian Reais—it comes out to about 199.62 BRL.
While I agree that it is not difficult to weight models by hand, I'd still rather spend more time on polish and less on laying the basic groundwork. It's all a question of how you value your time.
I consider my ZenUV and UVPackmaster good investments. For what I wanted to do, they saved me so much more time than I spend working for the money they cost.
OK, maybe UV mapping I might open my wallet for, because I think everyone can agree that UV mapping sucks.